October 31, 2016

Lessons Learned In This Crazy Food Industry (PODCAST)

mattaaronWhat does it take to make it in the food industry today?  We talk with Matt Aaron, founder of Andes Fruit Columbia and host of the Food Startups Podcast.  He’s not only talked with hundreds of food business to learn about the mistakes and challenges they’ve faced along the way but also shares his lessons learned as an import/export business.


Note: Links mentioned in the podcast can be found in this transcript and listed below the transcript.

Jennifer:A little bit about our guest today, and you’ll see why I’m so excited to have him on the show. Matt Aaron is the creator of The Food Startups podcast. As always, we’re going to include links in the transcript so that you can link directly back to his podcast. The show talks to food entrepreneurs, everyone from small coffee and early-stage food startups to food companies that have more than $500 million in revenue, including folks like the legendary investor Jim Rogers, Seth Goldman of Honest Tea, and Bob Moore of Bob’s Red Mill. With over 100 episodes and counting, their audience is made up of listeners like you. I highly recommend you check out this podcast series.


In addition to running the podcast, though, Matt is also a food entrepreneur himself. He’s also coming at this from the avenue of understanding what issues and challenges you’re facing. He’s the co-founder of Andes Fruits Colombia, a company that ships exotic Colombian fruits into the United States. In 2010, he moved to Colombia, which is the base of operations. He’s fluent in Spanish and Portuguese, in addition to English, obviously, and is an avid reader, having read over 400 books since 2008. His dream is to one day turn parts of Colombia that were once in control of the guerrilla group FARC into a fairly traded agricultural program.


Matt, thank you so much for coming on today. I’m very excited to have you here.


Matt:Yeah, thanks so much for having me, likewise.


Jennifer:This is fantastic. As I mentioned in the introduce, you’re not just a podcast host, but we’re going to get to that in a minute. You also run a food company. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey into the food industry?


Matt:Yeah. It actually started … I’ll give credit, I guess he’s a pretty famous blogger, one of Time magazine’s top 25 bloggers, Tynan, T-Y-N-A-N.com. This is a really interesting person. Feel free to look him up.


He came down to Bogota, and he stayed with me for a couple of days. This was in 2012. What was interesting about it was he showed me what really good nutrition was. I had no idea about nutrition. I thought a lot of odwalla, fruit juices, and things like that were healthy. He taught me about fried carbs, etc. That sparked a journey in Colombia and Peru into all the cool weird super-feeds that were there. I was just trying everything.


I came across a fruit, which is more well-known now, called camu-camu, which grows on the shore of the Amazon River, and in that zone in Colombia, Peru, and Brazil. It has more vitamin C than I think of food, definitely any fruit, in the world. Now, it’s very … It’s not sweet at all, it’s very acidic but, in abstract form, it’s a great way to get natural vitamin C. I started selling that on Amazon. That’s kind of how I got into this crazy food space.


Jennifer:Wow, that’s a really innovative way to get into it.


Matt:Yeah, I guess. Starting out, all of the mistakes that I’ve made. I still remember … This is a great learning experience. Camu-Camu was really interesting. Things have changed I suppose. Naturals does a good job but, in general, just putting something in a bag without adding value in the sense of, are you going to mix it with something, etc. can become tough. I still have the number two ranking on Amazon. Dr. Oz mentioned camu-camu. Sales went through the roof. I ran out of inventory. As a rookie I didn’t have my supply locked down. I lost my Amazon ranking. That was kind of the end of that business.


Jennifer:Oh man.


Matt:Yeah, it was a great learning experience. If I ever come across another, we’ll call it super food, that has that type of potential, I’ll have a better idea on how to capitalize on it.


Jennifer:To that point … You were talking about kind of the added value. In a perfect world, if you were to do it over again, even without the Dr. Oz piece, what do you think is important for food producers or food entrepreneurs in order to convey … Especially a product like yours that, let’s say a US clientele in particular might not be familiar with, how do you convey to them how to use it, what’s important and why it’s good for them?


Matt:I’m going to answer, and since I’m not doing online sales right now, I’m going to try to answer more … I guess this could apply to online sales but, more towards in-store sales. The first part is packaging. You have to educate on the packaging. People need to know what it is. They need to be intrigued by it and you have to tell them how to use it. I think some mistakes that I’ve made, I’ve seen other people make, is they have this exotic super-food but they don’t tell people exactly how to use it. That’s a big mistake.


Jennifer:Then, did you because … I know you said you’re importing it in extract form, did you run into import-export issues with food or was that not a concern since it was in extract form?


Matt:What I did …


Jennifer:What about now?


Matt:Sure, so what issues did I run into? Okay, I’ll tell you the first one. This is more an Amazon issues but it’s worth mentioning. Amazon, you have to print out their bar-codes. I thought you just had to have a UPC. I was completely wrong on that. Then, the Amazon said, “Listen, you need to pay for us to put the Amazon bar-codes on there.” This is obviously done by robots and machines. They basically put the Amazon barcode over the front of the label. My buddy ordered off Amazon and was like, “Hey man, the cover of Mama-Camu, which is the camu-camu brand, has the Amazon label over it. You can’t even read it.” That was the first one.


Second is, importing … Okay, so I’d say importing the camu-camu … Getting a good customs broker is really important. As we’ll talk about later, now that I work in produce which is perishable. Even more important but, not as important as non-perishables, people that are alert and can be proactive in making sure you get approved. I think that’s super important.


I don’t know if you remember this Jennifer, another thing that I’ve worked on is panela, which is a non-centrifugal unrefined sugar. It comes from Columbia organic sugar. Our first shipment with that literally arrived the day the government went on shut down. The people that were responsible for getting this approved … It was my first time. It’s pretty complicated sugar. That was another one.


There’s going to be things. I guess the best learned from this is to: 1.) Get a good customs broker 2.) Read as much as you can and 3.) You’re gong to run into problems with the logistics. You want to avoid problems, yes, learn from them, try to prevent them but, you also need to be able to react and get a setup where you can handle these inevitable logistics problems. They can range from not getting cleared, being two days later then you expect, trucker not picking it up … It’s 7pm and you’ve turned off your email for the day. Let’s say 10pm, “Hey I tried to pick up last night, but I couldn’t get it.” Then, you call them back and they’re like, “Oh, we can’t pick up for two more days.” Those types of things are going to happen.


It’s amazing … I definitely feel blessed in the sense that going through all these types of things, in theory, are going to get you better in the future if you can learn from them.


Jennifer:Well you know, you were talking about some of the specific logistics with import-export and things like the government shutting down, is probably not on your radar of issues that could happen when you’re starting up your business. That idea of being flexible, that also … The reality is, I think every food entrepreneur starting out, you’ve got to be able to be flexible and make decisions. I talked a lot about trying to be strategic in your thinking but, sometimes you do have to make decisions on the fly.


I imagine that you’ve heard some stories like that in the podcast series. That would bring me to my next question which is, what made you decide to start up the podcast series in addition to running your business?


Matt:I come from a tech background, Jennifer, and the great thing about the tech world is that a lot of the programming, a lot of SEO, which is basically showing up in Google, all that type of stuff, you can find it online. It’s pretty easy to get. There’s pretty good information that you can get for free.


in the food business … Now, obviously with small food biz and uploading my podcast and a couple other people, but it’s still very small, right? It’s still really small, especially when I started in 2013. There were not … Gosh, it’s tough for people to find this information online. I tend to think that import-export quality control is not necessarily set up from forming the micro-small businesses.




Matt:Now, the larger small businesses, lets say when you get to 500,000 or a million sales, you’re going to have an idea. You can figure things out and you can probably afford to go to these trade shows and learn. The majority of food jobs are not at that level. The idea is just democratized information, so people have this available to learn and also just kind of a place to hang out. We thought a lot about that because sometimes if we don’t deliver information in an entertaining fashion, people just won’t absorb it. Just think about that boring textbook that you were suppose to read but never read in college. That’s why we started the show. Just to kind of help educate people for free on the ins and outs of food service.


Jennifer:I love it. That’s obviously the same reason I did too, which is this idea that I really believe that a rising tide carries all boats. The more information that we can compile, gather and share with other food entrepreneurs, the better the food industry as a whole can be, for the businesses and consumers. I loved how you put out the democratization of information. I might end up using that.


Matt:Sure, feel free. I stole that from someone, I’m sure. Please use it. It’s a beautiful concept I think. I’ll tell you where I got it from. I got it from one of my guests, which is BlueCart. A big space in food stars and teching, we’ll call it food tech, is apps that allow for ordering between restaurants and suppliers. The traditionalists are just like, when you call it’s like, “Hey, I need some more mangos. Hey, I need to get some fresh garlic. Hey, I need some more salmon.” Whatever it is, you just call and like, “Where is it?” This is just all through an app.


What makes BlueCart different, and they talked about democratization, is that almost everyone else, the vendors and the restaurants have to pay to use this service. They might be great services but a problem I think a lot about is, the smaller vendors where $10-$15 a month, that’s a lot of money for them in the sense that there’s problems. It’s just not an extra cost that you want them to pay. They made it free for both restaurants and vendors. They got rid of that barrier. That’s what they meant by democratization. Even the smaller diary, the micro-diary, grower can get on without having to think, “Oh man, it’s another subscription service.” As you know, a lot of people don’t like having these subscription costs.


Jennifer:Absolutely, especially as a small business. At least, especially until you know it’s going to pay off for you, that’s not a cost that you want to have on your balance sheet.


Matt:Yeah, and I want to kind of intertwine some of the lessons here because I know we went into the import-export part. What you find … Whether or not you’re in import-export, there’s a lot more costs I think, unless you’re a seasoned vet. If you’re getting into it as a newbie, like I did, there’s always going to be more costs then you think. You have to think about the margin of safety. Meaning that, “Oh, we just need to sell 25%, great.” You want to add in a couple grand just for the surprises like, “Oh, we need free samples. Oh, we need in-store demos. Some product is old, so you don’t want to sell that anymore. You’re going to sell those at a fraction of the cost and insurance.” All that type of stuff that you kind of learn on the fly, but these costs definitely add up.


I’ll tell you another one. When we imported our first container of dried fruits, in Baltimore they did something called an x-ray, where they had to put the 20 foot container through an x-ray. That’s $450 bucks. It was like $400-450 bucks. A lot of these costs just kind of show up. I think that’s really important to have in mind as well.


Jennifer:Absolutely, I love that, the margin of safety. It’s also, I think I see entrepreneurs do a lot, is they set their prices with what they hope will be a good profit margin without taking into account that margin of safety that you just talked about. Then, once your prices are set, it’s really hard to go back, whether it’s your consumers or the retail partners, and later say, “Oh, wait. I actually need to increase that by X because I’m not covering those surprise costs.” It ends up eating into your own profit or any profit that you hope to generate from the business.


Matt:Jennifer, I’m going to add one thing there because this conversation has been great so far. It’s kind of tapped into some unconscious ideas I’ve gotten from food stuff on my show. One thing that I’ve seen multiple times, on successful food businesses today, they’re in a lot of stores, but they started in farmer’s markets. You mentioned pricing. Not only do you need to price correctly, which is one of the biggest mistakes I’ve seen, also you need to make sure you price in farmer’s markets the same price you want in retail. Why? You build these loyal fans and let’s say you sell it at a discount at the farmer’s market, $3. All of a sudden, they go to Whole Foods and it’s at $5 or $4 or $3.50. They might not buy it. That’s also I would also mention as well.


Jennifer:I think that’s a great point. Yeah, that is something that start-ups make mistakes with. Then, also, if your Whole Foods buyer happens to be walking through the farmer’s market, which does happen with a lot of these stores. They are looking for new and interesting products, and they see your product price significantly lower then what you’re telling them it needs to be priced or what you’re suggesting it’s priced at retail, they’re going to drop you. They are more likely to drop you.


Matt:Jennifer, I’m going to give you, we’ll call it anonymous tip. I won’t mention the company, that way I won’t be violating their trust here. Basically, UNFI, some of the big distributors … You have to be careful with distributors as well. Most stores will want you to have a distributor address and all. If a distributor of UNFI or any of these people find out, and I’ve seen examples of this happening … One example in particular, where they found out that they had offered their product cheaper to another distributor, they just got on the black list. You have to be really careful with these relationships.


We also talk a little bit about this on the show and some master minds with other food entrepreneurs, about diplomacy. You want to stand tough with these distributors and buyers, but you can not get on their black list. It’s definitely a skill that takes a little bit of nurturing. It’s really important to keep that in mind.


Jennifer:My head went to … It’s kind of like a political environment. Yes, you have to be firm on what you want and need for your business but you have to be very open with your relationship with them. Trying to build … Not to scare people away from distributors or retail buyers by any stretch of the imagination, because you can have great relationships with those people but you need to be looking to build relationships that are long-lasting and it’s not going to be just a one-off with them. That takes work.


Matt:Yeah, I’m going to go for a metaphor here. Tell me what you think. It’s kind of like … Buyers sometimes can be … I hope none of my buyers are listening to this, but I’m going to take a chance that they’re too busy, even though this is a great podcast to listen to. Think of them, not all but a lot of them, as the jealous girlfriend or jealous boyfriend. You have to think of them that way. You have to be really careful the way you handle them or with other buyers as well.


Jennifer:I like that analogy. I have to ask you because you actually have a podcast that was specifically titled, “Why you shouldn’t start a food business.” Given what you know, having talked to food entrepreneurs and being a food entrepreneur yourself, if you had someone come to you to ask you about advice for starting a food company … I know we’ve talked a lot about different pieces of advice here. Is there one thing that you would tell them? I guess the second piece to that question is: Would you tell them to do it? Would you say why you shouldn’t do it?


Matt:Sure, okay, two parts here. Great question by the way. I’d say, one is that you have to find out about their passion. Do they really love it? It’s not just love, but understanding. This can be psychologically and emotionally hard. I find that is kind of a theme with most start-ups. I’ll paint you some episodes that we can talk about a little bit more. The point, not paint you.


I think one is that you have to really be into it. You have to be willing to go through that emotional roller-coaster of starting any business. I’ve talked to people before … I have people call me for advice sometimes. This one guy, a really sharp guy, and he could make doing programming. He had a food hobby project. He could make a contract between 10-15,000 a month with a Silicon Valley start up. He’s really good at what he does.


This food start, he was just struggling and spending tons of time, not making any money. Most food starts don’t make money in their first year. We talked and I was like, “Dude, do you really want to do this?” I think he’s probably like 28 and he’s like, “Dude, I want to buy a house. I want to get my dating life a little more serious. Things like that. This food business I’m up late at night.” I was like, “Dude, you don’t have to start a food business.” I think we definitely idealized the entrepreneur being the number one starting businesses because you can be great employees, we’ll say number fours or number sevens, like the number four employee like this guy, etc. He’s excellent at what he does. I was like, “Man, I don’t know enough about exactly the type of [inaudible 00:20:09] but it seems like if you just double down …” Maybe he’d go from $10-20,000 a month, have a much less stressful life, and do other important things that he wants to do.


I think you have to really think about the sacrifices there. I think he expected it to be a 9-5 … There’s some exceptions, but very rarely do I see that working. There’s just going to be problems where … I’ll give you a really good example, Jennifer. We’ll say with customs brokers. This could also be with logistics companies so, even if you’re doing it domestically, these deliveries. Sometimes you have to be on the ball. When you start-up, you have to be the janitor. You have to be the CEO. You have to be everything, right? Just having to be checking your email at 8pm to make sure that the trucker picked it up. Things like that, that a lot of people don’t like dealing with.


To be honest, sometimes some of the biggest stress I’ve had, Jennifer, is when everything is perfect and I’m going away for the weekend, something like that. Everything’s set up and I have my trucker. Here’s the dock. You’re going to pick this up from Miami airport and deliver it. Everything’s good, you know? Then, it’s 4pm and it’s like, “Great, I’m going to go see some friends. It’s Friday at 4pm, let’s go to happy hour.” Then, 7pm, “Hey, we’re not able to get it today and we can’t get a truck out for another week.” Which is just for fresh fruit, a disaster. You have to be willing to go through those types of problems. I’m sure other people listening to this have many more examples that they can give.


Jennifer:I once had … This was a couple year back, right? Just give another example, is the whole cupcake thing was getting really big. Somebody came to me and said, “I want to start up a cupcake company,” and was thinking about transitioning out of another industry to get into this because she loved to bake. What I told her is, “Okay, I want you to spend the next 30 days baking 4 dozen cupcakes and frosting, every single day for 30 days. Four dozen, if you’re really selling cupcakes, is not that many. Then, I want you to come back after 30 days and tell me, do you still want to do this as a career?”


She didn’t even make it the full 30 days. She emailed me and said, “I’m going to actually stay where I am.” Sometimes I think there’s this misconception that because you have a passion for it, you have to turn it into a business. Sometimes, it’s okay for it to just be a passion and to be the thing that is kind of your emotional and your physical release after your work day. That’s fine as well.


Matt:That’s a great point.


Jennifer:One thing I was going to ask you is … The cupcake example is a perfect example. For many product categories within the food industry, the barrier to enter is pretty low. The cost to enter can be pretty low, which I think is one of the things that is both a blessing and curse to the food industry. The real test for a low of entrepreneurs is a lot of folks who listen to this podcast, where they really struggle is, when they try to grow that business from the start-up to that next step. Not even into a middle-sized company, but just that next step. What sort of challenges have you heard or have you experienced yourself in that phase? Are there themes that you hear that entrepreneurs struggle with when trying to scale or grow their business?


Matt:I guess, first off … You mentioned this, not all categories is the barrier to enter low. I’d say produce and the beverage is … It can be low in small batches, but the marketing is really expensive to grow. Like with beverages in the sense that, one there are commercial kitchens … I’m sure you give advice on these types of things, but the commercial kitchens, the incubators and so forth to get your product made … I think scaling growth, it’s expensive.


I’d say one of the themes is packaging and then co-packers. You’re almost always going to work with co-packers when it comes time to scale. You’re not … It’s very rarely, are you just going to start and build a plant or a factory once you move our of your kitchen. The theme with co-packer is, it’s a price per scale. If you’re going to do 1,000 bottles, the production is going to be really expensive. If your going to do 10,000 bottles, it’s going to be cheaper, but then you have 10,000 bottles to sell and they may be perishable, right? That’s always a really difficult decision. It’s not always easy to make. You kind of go back and forth on it.


Then there’s packaging. Everyone is going to have a lot of iterations of their packaging. It’s saying the limits like, “Man, we can print 50,000 labels, but …” This has happened to me and a lot of people I know, a lot of successful people I know too. They print their label and there’s just something weird, like a typo or they are like, “Oh, we forgot to put the number of grams of carbohydrates or we spelled fat F-A-A-T.” Things like this happen. Obviously, we’re going to scrutinize our labels a lot more then the average person. We don’t want that to happen. Those are big struggles, I’d say.


Another thing for scaling I’d say … A lot of people don’t think about sometimes, it’s not just getting in the store. It’s staying in the store.




Matt:It’s getting that velocity. That can be expensive. The grocery stores, they are going to have free-fills, meaning they want a couple cases free for every store or a case free for every store. Then, what are you going to do to promote it? Do you have the manpower to promote this?


It’s always exciting to see the companies that travel around on a road trip and go from store to store. As you know, that’s expensive. Especially if you have a full-time job, you probably can’t do that. Those would be the things that come to mind. We already mentioned the price incorrectly.


Jennifer:Speaking both of price and being on super-market shelves, what do you think or do you have any advice, for smaller food companies who have gotten on to store shelves, but are shelved right next to a big brand. That big brand has such economies to scale that they are able to price their product somewhat unrealistically.


Even if you are using a co-packer … The granola that’s next to you that’s made by a big granola company, is going to … They’re making millions of boxes and you might be making 10,000 boxes with your co-packer. Their price per unit is going to be so much lower. Do you have any recommendations for food entrepreneurs who are either getting into or have gotten into the super-markets and are trying to compete with those bigger brands that are priced so much higher then they are?


Matt:I’d say … Priced so much higher or so much lower?


Jennifer:Sorry, yeah, priced so much lower. The big brands are priced so much lower then the smaller start-up is.


Matt:Gotcha, yes. Here’s what I would say. This is something that you have to think about. There are ways to have a premium brand, but more often then not, the more common answer that you get from most buyers is … I actually tried to sell like a spirulina granola once and it’s awesome, but it was literally twice the price of every other granola. You almost have to price … The Honest Tea guys tell me this, you almost have to price … Even if it’s not profitable. Hopefully, you’ll at least break even or where you want to be when you get to that size. Does that make sense? You may have to price at a loss betting that you can get the velocity up and make that 25,000 product run. Then, at that scale you’ll profit. Maybe you plan out that in 9 months we’ll be able to make the production runs that will be profitable a little bit. Right now we need to price competitively.


Jennifer:The first thing in my head that I went to is … I love numbers. The first thing my head went to is, this is why cash-forecast or so important because if you can draft out in a cash forecast, “Okay, how much capital do we need to get to that point that we think we’re going to be at in 9 months,” and make sure that you have the capital between now and that 9 month mark. Honestly, a little bit extra because things aren’t going to happen exactly as planned. Then, yes, it is easier to kind of take that hit now, knowing that it’s going to pay off in the future. I would definitely recommend that folks do a cash-forecast to make sure that the numbers are going to work out for them.


Matt:Yeah, and I think also packages are so important, which is why I mentioned it multiple times throughout the episode. The cool thing about farmer’s markets and going to events, you can get a lot of feedback on your packaging. Buyers as well, but I would think most companies are going to want to launch in a store with version 2, version 3, or version 4 of the packaging. That’s not a rule. That’s more just a guideline.


If you get feedback on your packaging, that can sometimes … This is someone who’s made a lot of mistakes here. That can be the difference in being successful and not successful. It’s really important to have you packaging just shout off the shelf. It’s got to be extroverted packaging. I think going bold … Like you said, if you’re next to a brand or you don’t have the best space, you really need to stand out. Do whatever you can to stand out.


Jennifer:I like that, extrovert packaging. I hadn’t thought of it that way, but that’s a really fun way to think about it.


Matt:Yeah, and I got this from Tessa Stewart, who’s a packaging expert in the UK. She’s kind of against focus groups and big companies like Naked … Not Naked, Innocent, the smoothie company that is a big company in Europe. Other companies, they pay her to go to supermarkets and watch the way people interact with the product. Then, she would go up and ask them questions. She said a lot of times she’d meet founders who are introverted people, which is fine. Being introverted is great, but your packaging needs to be extroverted. That really stuck with me.


Jennifer:I love that. You’ve shared a ton of information on lessons learned and tips and advice. I have to ask, do you have a favorite … You have over a hundred podcasts already. Do you have a favorite podcast episode that you would say, if we’re telling listeners right now, “Go listen to this. Then listen to all the others, but go listen to this one first.” Do you have a favorite one that you can share with us?


Matt:Can I give you two?




Matt:Episode 101 is with Honest Tea and I recommend you read their book. We go behind the scenes of the book in this episode. If you’re not familiar with Honest Tea, they sold to Coca-Cola, which I’m sure … That was my projection, Coca-Cola? How could they do that? They were able to keep their brand completely independent and now they have distribution everywhere. They’re in Chick-Fillet and Wendy’s with their organic fair-trade tea. They tell their whole story. We talk about the biggest mistakes learned. He just talks about … This guy has gone from inception in 1998 to now, like a $160 million a year company.




Matt:I think that’s a great learning to see, “Do you have what it takes?” It teaches you about how vicious the beverage industry is. That’s a great one to get a mind-set and chops.


One episode that I’m really proud of, that I also think you should listen to, is on art and design with WTRMLN WTS (pronounced: Watermelon Water). I’m not sure if you’re familiar with WTRMLN WTR. This is episode number 85 of the podcast. Jody, she’s an expert in experienced design. Experienced design is like … The easier way is to think about going to the Apple store; everything, the way it smells, the lighting, the way it looks, the way people speak to you, everything that goes with the experience. She’s consulted with fortune-100 companies about these types of things.


If you go to their website and you look at their packaging, WTRMLN WTR in terms of marketing design copy, is just … They’re blowing up. The Broncos before the Super Bowl were drinking it. Biance invested in it. That was a great lesson on art and having a concept and having an artistic expression of your concept within your company. Not just in your packaging, but everything the company does and how powerful it can be.


It was definitely an episode that I didn’t even know what I was getting into. I just got referred by their PR, “Hey, would you like to have them on the show?” Then, it just turned into this really amazing episode that I still think about today.


Jennifer:Oh, fantastic. I love that. I’m pausing because I haven’t actually listened to that one, so I’m kind of making a note here to go back after we finish talking and go listen to that one. Thank you so much for being on today. As I mentioned earlier, we’re going to include links to those two podcast episodes, to the podcast series in general and to Andy’s Fruits Columbia, the company that Matt Aaron helped to co-found.


Thank you so much for sharing all of your insights with us. Like I told you guys in the beginning, those of you here listening, go check out this podcast, his podcast series. I don’t do this with everybody, as you know, but his podcast series is one that if you like podcasts, you need to get it on your phone and keep listening to it.


Matt:Jennifer, thank you so much for having me. Sorry, to interrupt. I want to say thank you so much for the shout-out to my podcast. That means a lot as pod-casters, you should know.


Jennifer:No, my pleasure. You do great work and you do great work in helping to democratize the information that all of us food entrepreneurs need to get and to stay successful in a really highly competitive and every-changing landscape.


Matt:It’s not easy, that’s for sure.


Jennifer:Thank you.


As a reminder, you can check out The Food Startups podcast by clicking here. For other Small Food Business podcasts, click here to Listen + Learn or you can access them directly on iTunes.

Links to resources mentioned in the podcast:

Related Articles: