March 6, 2017

Cooking Up The Next Generation Of Entrepreneurs (PODCAST)

Venture Kits founder Leslie Feinzaig shares with us her passion for helping kids learn about entrepreneurship and how that inspired her own entrepreneurial journey.


Jennifer:We’re taking a slightly different tack today and talking to an entrepreneur who is focused on growing the next generation of entrepreneurs; be they food entrepreneurs, or entrepreneurs in other industries.


Leslie Feinzaig is the founder and CEO of Venture Kits, the toy start up on a mission to expose kids to entrepreneurship through hands on play. Prior to founding Venture Kids, Leslie was an executive at Julep Beauty. She held earlier roles at Big Fish Games, Microsoft, and Innosight, a boutique consulting firm founded and led by innovators dilemma author Clayton Christensen.


So Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today.


Leslie:Thanks for having me.


Jennifer:So, as listeners to this podcast now, I love talking about all things entrepreneur ship. So, I was really excited to learn about Venture Kids and how the company and how you are working to grow the next generation of entrepreneurs.


I would love for you to tell us a little bit about what sparked this business idea.


Leslie:Sure. So, thank you so much.


You know, I love this idea too. It’s what keeps me going every day. I was just another corporate executive plugging along last year. I worked really hard, you know. Just climbing the corporate ladder and then I had a baby. And it changed my life. And it really made me feel like it was time to get my mission into sharper focus. The first few months after I had my daughter, we spent a lot of time, my husband and I, thinking and fantasizing about what she was going to be when she grew up and you know, my husband is a software developer and so he would read to her these really long, boring text books on physics and how to program. It is a true story.


And I thought, wait a second. I want her to be a CEO. I just kind of looked at her one day and in the midst of that new mommy blur, sleep deprivation, I just kind of like imagined her one day getting a promotion to CEO and getting that letter that said “Congratulations on your promotion, you are now the CEO of this company” and somehow the idea just came to me right then and there. I wanted to write that letter to her. I wanted to create a toy that starts off with the words ‘Congratulations you are now the CEO’, so that she can try on that hat just like she’s going to try on all kinds of hats of different things that she is going to play when she’s a kid, right? We want her to play Doctor, we want her to play cook, we want her to play teacher. Well I want her to play CEO, too.


So I invented Venture Kits.


Jennifer:That’s true, there isn’t really … I think back to my childhood, that wasn’t one of the hats we tried on as kids. We did play vet and doctor and everything else but we never played CEO. That’s really interesting.


Leslie:Yeah and I’ve spent a lot of time in the first few weeks after I’ve thought of this idea, inviting neighborhood kids to play and to try out different versions of the toy that I came up with. And I would always ask them, you know, what is a CEO, what is an entrepreneur, what is a boss, and you know, unless your mom and dad are already entrepreneurs, unless they are already business leaders, most kids don’t know what any of these words mean and if they do, you know, a lot of them have some sort of association with the word boss, but it’s generally a negative association. It’s generally you know, the boss is the bad guy. It’s the guy that doesn’t let mom and dad take a long vacation. Right, they don’t have this positive association with you know, the boss can be somebody who creates employment and who solves problems and who does all kinds of great things for society.


Jennifer:Yeah, that’s interesting. Like I said, just that idea that we never played as CEO and yeah, how do kids learn to become entrepreneurs unless they actually have a role model in their life?


For you, as you think about empowering kids, and I think that’s really probably the right word. As you were talking I kept thinking it’s just so empowering for them. As you think about empowering kids to learn about entrepreneurship, and to try on that hat as a possibility, are you looking at entrepreneurship or do you know, do you want them to take away that it’s just about making money or that there is more to entrepreneurship?


Leslie:Yeah, you know, that is an excellent question. I believe that all kids have an entrepreneurial instinct. Or most kids. I mean, every kid that I’ve ever come across has an entrepreneurial instinct. Whether they know it or not is a different question.


Mostly you see in the desires to put up a lemonade stand. That’s basically where the entrepreneurial instinct starts and ends for, I don’t know, I was going to say ninety percent of kids, I don’t know what the actual percentage is, for most kids, you know, that’s about as much as they’re going to experiment with entrepreneurship, if at all during their childhood.


So, with Venture Kids, it’s about beyond just making money. It’s really about starting something. You know, it’s about starting something new. Some of the kits are traditional money making businesses like the bakery, the treats to go kit, which is, I think, how you and I got connected in the first place. I’m creating a whole bunch of little kid food entrepreneurs. But future kids explore areas like auctions, like let’s put together a little art auction. Or, philanthropy. Let’s put together a little non-profit business, right? That’s a business too.


If the beginning words to every Venture Kit, like I mentioned, are “Congratulations you are now the founder and CEO of this company”, the closing words of every Venture Kit, the very last step, is an explanation of what do you do with the money once you earn it. And we teach kids about well, okay you earned this money so you can spend it on something you’ve been wanting, but you can also save it, you can also donate it, or hey, maybe you can also use it to start a new little business. And we call that investment.


So you know, we explore all kinds of different ideas around money and I would say that my primary motivation is not necessarily to teach them about money itself, although that is one of the things that is definitely part of the curriculum of Venture Kids. It’s more about removing the fear of trial and failure, and just expanding the concept of what entrepreneurship means for all of these kids.


Jennifer:As you were talking, it reminded me I had a … This story will come back around, I promise to all the listeners, but … When I was in business school, a friend of mine happened to be from the EU and I’ll never forget. He said that one of the things that just stood out to him about Americans was that in America you could try something and fail at it and it would be considered a badge of honor, so entrepreneurship was really valued versus in some other countries, if you try something and it doesn’t work out, you always carry that as a badge of failure. So I loved what you just said about … That it is okay, at least in our culture here in the US. It is okay to try something and the risk of failure is there and it’s okay to possibly fail, because really great things can happen if you’re willing to take that risk.


Leslie:Absolutely, and that’s something that I’m guessing all of your listeners who have dipped the toe in the world of entrepreneurship know very well. Which is, even if it’s quote un-quote, accepted in our society to try something and fail, it’s still really scary. And not fun.


I mean, I fail all the time. It’s still not fun.


Jennifer:Yeah, not.


Leslie:And you know, it’s ironic that I write these skits to tell, quite literally, I am writing Venture Kids to tell my daughter that it’s okay to fail. And then I fail, and I don’t feel so good about it either, right? So I kind of have to read my own toy, and remind myself that it’s okay. That, you know, this just means that I learned something that doesn’t work, and I’m going to try something else tomorrow and maybe that’s not going to work either, but maybe it will and I’ll move forward and I’ll progress.


So, you know, I’m not actually American either. I’m an immigrant, which is a whole host of other … We can talk about that a lot too. So, I am a little more risk adverse than your average American, I think. But I still think that it’s a muscle. Starting something is a muscle. And anything in your life that you do, the first time, is a lot scarier than the scarier time. Maybe with the exception of like, jumping off, you know, a bungee cord or something. That’s probably scarier the second time, but the first time everything is really, really scary the first time. Then you do it again the second time, it kind of demystifies it, right?


Okay, well. I remember what it was like when I tried this the first time, so it’s more around that, it’s more around, let’s create a generation that generates value, that thinks extensively, that is not afraid to try new things to innovate, to work collaboratively.


A lot of the reasons why I even thought about my daughter being a CEO in the first place, had a lot to do with some of the challenges that our generation has had in the workplace, right? And in terms of gender diversity, and background diversity. Just diversity in general. You know, my approach to fixing those issues is very much around empowering the next generation because I think for ours, you know, we are doing all we can, but it’s really about passing the torch.


Jennifer:Yup, absolutely. I want to talk a little bit about this first kit that you created, because it was a food kit, and that’s how we initially got basically introduced to one another. Your treats-to-go kit. So, can you tell us a little bit about the kit and then also why did you opt to start with something food related?


Leslie:You know, the first kit that I actually designed and play tested, obsessively, I should say. Like play tested a lot. Was the lemonade stand, because it was the … Just the thing that required least explanation when I recruited kids to do play testing. And they loved it. Oh my goodness, I would have kids over in my house, mind you at this point I had a four month old baby, right.


Jennifer:Oh, fun.


Leslie:So, like, I would literally book one hour play sessions with the kids and the moms here in my living room and then I would literally have to stop them and kick them out. Because they just wanted to keep playing. And that was when I realized that, you know, I really had something here.


So you know, I’m spending half the summer playing this lemonade stand prototype, and I quickly realized that I can’t launch a lemonade stand because by the time it launches, it’s going to be fall. By the time people played it’s going to get colder, and so at that point I really had to think about, okay, what can I do that is parallel to a lemonade stand, but you don’t actually have to leave your home? And I thought about this idea of baking to order, so the interesting thing about treats to go is that it puts that, kind of, food retail model that kids instinctively understand on it’s head. Instead of, I’m going to make a bunch of lemonade, sit outside and wait for people to pass by and sell it to them, and you know, rely on my adorable looks and charming self, I’m going to turn that around, I’m going to try and get the kids to do the sales first and the production later.


So that enables me to teach a whole bunch of different concepts along the way like price versus cost, how can I not make so much of something that I’m going to get stuck with chocolate covered pretzels for the next month. Or, you know, my mom will eat them all tonight. So, that’s sort of where I came from. I just wanted to do something that kids understood instinctively but turn it around on it’s head, to start to, sort of, fulfill that promise of entrepreneurship is about more than a lemonade stand. You can do all kinds of different things.


I think, as you see the kids that are coming up in the near future, that’s gonna get even more obvious that this is really not just about a lemonade stand, this is about all of the different things we can do when we put our brains and our resources together.


Jennifer:You know, it’s funny. You mentioned the lemonade stand, and yeah, it is the quintessential kind of starting entrepreneurship that a lot of kids might give a go at. But a friend of mine, over the summer, she posted something on Facebook and this conversation made me think about it. Where she was talking about her young daughter, let’s say six or seven, has been selling lemonade one weekend, and then had trouble understanding that it couldn’t just keep, basically, replenishing her supply of ingredients by asking her parents for money, and not taking anything out of the profits that she had earned from the business to, quote, reinvest back in the business and buy more ingredients. And so my friend was kind of having this dilemma of how do I explain this to her, that you just …


You don’t always get basically outside investment to keep funding your growth, and not take any of your own profits, back into the business.


Leslie:That was like the number one thing I hear from parents, is how much they love that Venture Kits teach … You know, this time around, they might actually get the ten bucks they spent on organic lemons. They love that, right. We teach them that hey, mommy and daddy are called investors, and investors expect their money back. You know, all of those fun ideas about entrepreneurship that kids really, you know … When they put together a lemonade stand, it’s really, for the average person out there, it’s a get out of my hair for an afternoon kind of activity, right?


You just, throw some lemons or powder at them and you know, supervise them while they’re outside. But with Venture Kids, it’s a whole lot more than that. It pulls at their creative strings, because we have them think about decorating menus, decorating their banner, and using that part of their brain and then it also teaches them a little bit about math. The kits in fact, has third grade math level. That’s how we teach them how to calculate a cost.




Leslie:So, yeah. We really take pride in how much parents absolutely love the experience that their kids have when they’re playing Venture Kids.


Jennifer:No, it sounds like it’s a much more real life experience in terms of growing that next generation of entrepreneurs, understanding that there’s … It’s not just always a win. That you do have to, even if the business is a hole [inaudible 00:15:12], it can be hard for you to take that ten bucks and give it back to your investors.


Leslie:Oh, gosh. Yeah. Absolutely.


This kit in particular, because it is for a little bit of an older set of kids, it’s approximately ten to thirteen years old, it plays really well. Future kids are a little more fanciful, they don’t have math involved. The one that I’m launching for holidays is an art auction, and that one is for kids seven to ten years old. Just a little bit younger, you know, we’re not quite so strict with the concept of investment and cost. We’re kinda, to get at everything … You know, something you just said made me remember that as I was writing the kit, I write this two page Q and A at the end of the kit. When I’m finished writing the kits, I send them to a couple of friends and colleagues who are school grade teachers. One is a third grade teacher, the other is middle school math teacher, and I have them review to make sure that I have educational grade materials.


So then writing the closing Q and A for one of the kits, you know, it occurred to me that one of the questions a kid might have, might be “What if I don’t sell anything?”, right? I mean, I have that question all the time. I have that right now. You know. If I just launch this art auction and I don’t sell anything, I’m stuck with like five hundred art auction kits in my basement, which is already looking like a Venture Kids factory down there.


So, I started to write that answer and I’m just going around in circles saying, you know, you try and the important thing is you have fun and that you learned and, you know what, just email me.




Leslie:You can’t sell anything, email me and I will talk to you personally about it. Because we all go through that, and it’s really hard, you know? It’s really hard.


Jennifer:Aww, that’s so great. Because yeah, you know what, at those moments I think, and like we have all been there, even if our businesses are succeeding, you just have those days that knock your knees out from under you and it’s so nice if you sometimes talk to somebody.


Leslie:It is. And just to know that, just because this day was yucky, tomorrow might be better, right? The next time you do it, it’s going to be a little bit better and if it wasn’t, then we wouldn’t be here.




Leslie:If you didn’t believe in what you were doing, you shouldn’t be doing it in the first place, and I … Ultimately that’s what gets me through the days that are a little bit harder, is that I just absolutely believe in what I’m doing. I want all kids to experience entrepreneurship. So that all kids, no matter who they are and where they come from and what they look like … So that all kids have an equal chance to become tomorrow’s leaders. And that’s why I invented Venture Kids.


Jennifer:That’s a powerful mission to get you up in the morning.


Leslie:Yes. Also, a nine month old.


Jennifer:I was going to say, especially when sleep deprived.


Leslie:Oh my goodness.


Jennifer:So, yeah, actually this is a perfect segway. Because I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about your entrepreneurial experience, because I know you don’t necessarily consider yourself a food entrepreneur, but I’m a firm believer that we can be … We in the food industry, can absolutely learn from entrepreneurs of all types.


So, given your educational and career background, before starting this company, how long did you spend, you know, crafting a business plan and you had talked about play testing your concept, and I know obviously it was not necessarily you were giving one hundred and ten percent of your time because you had a small infant to be taking care of as well, but how did … What sort of time and energy did you put into that? The reason I ask the question is that I always get a lot of questions from people who are very passionate about their idea and want to jump in tomorrow and get started. And while I love that passion, I typically will remind people that it’s not a bad idea to at least sit down and put a couple bullet points down on a piece of paper of where you want to be going at the very least. And start to have a rough idea of what that business plan would look like.


But I’d love to get your feedback.


Leslie:So, first of all, I should say, the real food entrepreneur in my family is my sister. My baby sister, my baby sister is thirty plus years old, but she owns a gourmet baking company. So we do actually have a food entrepreneur in the family. She’s incredibly, immensely talented and oh my God. Just absolutely amazing.


So when I think of starting a new business, and you know, you have that moment when you think that you have an amazing, amazing, amazing idea. The truth is, you know, as sad as it might be, there’s a lot of really, really great ideas out there in the world. And what is really going to make your business take off is how you make that idea come to life. So, I do think that it’s worth in the beginning spending a lot of your time testing whether that idea is really as big, or has as much potential out in the world, as it does in your head.


It’s a little bit difficult to judge something objectively when you’ve, by definition, fallen in love with it. If you want to pursue it then you’re kind of enamored through this idea and it’s a little bit difficult to know how well it’s going to go. So, well, I’m not necessarily of the camp of like, sit down and do like a very structured business plan before you start. I do think that you have to figure out if you have a product and if you have an audience, or a set of customers that would really, really love that product and spend time thinking about that and testing that before you quit your job, before you invest a whole ton of money or time, just try to see if there’s what, in the entrepreneurship world, we call a product market fit. As much as you can learn about that early on, otherwise it’s really a losing battle.


And then I think the next step to that, particularly with food, because you do have to invest in inventory and equipment. I mean, at some point you have to invest in all those things and I …. You know, make a little [inaudible 00:22:23]. Like, how much do you think you … Make a little financial projection of how much you think it is going to take to expand your business realistically to the point where it’s self sustaining. And, you know, just from my experience, it’s about twice as much as you think it is. At least.


So in my personal case, I spent, I would say, the first two to three months purely researching, designing my games, designing my toys, and testing them. Over and over and over and over again. It wasn’t until, kind of, mid summer that I started investing in a real prototype that could be sold and then that I started to do blogger outreach to talk to, you know, mommy bloggers and see if I had that product market fit. Because they are really great [bio weather?] of whether all moms are going to love this product or not.


I don’t know if that answers your question, kind of went a little bit long.


Jennifer:No, that does answer my question. That actually leads me into my next question, too, which was about the fact that in a pretty short period of time, you’ve managed to get some really well targeted press.


You know, as listeners hopefully know, on the small food business site we talk about the [inaudible 00:23:48] that getting press is … I mean, it’s wonderful whenever it happens, but especially if you can get press you know your target market is most likely going to be reading, and you know, in your case, the mommy bloggers.


So, what … If at a high level, can you give us an idea of, you know, what you were thinking about in terms of marketing strategy as you launch your company.


Leslie:You know, I kind of stumbled onto the idea of the mommy bloggers as I was doing that kind of test and learn approach that I mentioned just a few minutes ago. What I really wanted was feedback on my product. Honestly, I just wanted a whole bunch of moms to look at it, play with it, and tell me objectively what they thought.


I had some experience with mommy and lifestyle bloggers from my time at Julep, and you know, they can be a really, really hard crowd because they get … Actually, forget the mommy bloggers, any media today is getting bombarded with requests for reviews, and for articles, and for press coverage. So it can be really, really difficult for your message to cut through. What I did was, I started researching online. Like literally hundreds of mommy bloggers. Whenever I could find their contact details or, a lot of times, they have an area in their blog to submit ideas, I would just personally talk to them. I told them my story, I told them my mission, and I asked it they would like to review my product. And I … You know, I had a really amazing response. Something like ten percent of all the bloggers responded and said that yes they would be willing to review my kit for free. Which was a huge deal because for the most part, a lot of bloggers these days charge some amount for product reviews to be placed in their blogs.


So I think that that’s really how I started to put together this idea of, “Okay, well, I can use these passionate communities to spread my message and spread my mission”. And it worked out pretty well. I mean, it’s a little difficult because I don’t have almost any paid marketing at all. I don’t have a budget for paid marketing right now. So I can’t really control who is going to post about me, what they’re going to post about me, when it’s going to go online, and whether it’s going to get any kind of message amplification on social media. I have zero control over any of that. So I’ve been a little bit at the bloggers will, but it’s turned out really, really well for me. I mean, I’m just so grateful that these bloggers, who are by the way, they are entrepreneurs themselves, right? They know exactly what I’m going through. They can really relate to what I’m going through right now, and they’re all moms as well.


I’m just really grateful that they feel so passionately about creating opportunities for their kids as well, that they would give Venture Kids a chance.


Jennifer:You know and I think that for our listeners, I think that’s really important to point out, that you don’t have a budget for paid advertising because a lot of folks listening are in that same boat. And then it sounds like, for the most part, that you’ve done that outreach yourself, right? Like you’ve just found slices of time in your very hectic day to be able to make that happen, and made it a priority, is that right?


Leslie:Yeah, that’s absolutely right. I think I spent like one or two weeks this summer where the only thing I did was use search blog. I would literally do dozens, if not hundreds, every day. Follow ups, and just like one on one communications.


So I would say that the very, very focused time that was deliberately spent on blogger outreach. I do have friends who work in PR who have given me guidance, but they didn’t do the outreach for me.




Leslie:That’s … So I really did do it myself. And I have, you know … Because I have background in eCommerce and in games, so I know a lot about online advertising. I have spent a little bit of money on Facebook advertising, primarily and also on Google just to get a sense what my baseline is. Like, how much does it cost for me to grab the attention of the type of person that I’m going after?


But as somebody who is just starting out, I absolutely do not have the means to do anything at scale. It’s just actually so expensive to do online advertising these days. The flip side of, you know, getting great press and blogger coverage is that a lot of customers or other bloggers think that you are bigger and have more means than you do. Which is all right, because if somebody is writing about you, then you must be totally legit. And I am, you know I am a real company and I have a real product, but it’s a one woman operation right now. I have a few people that I hire a few hours here and there for help with design or for help with something here and there. But for the most part it’s really just me doing absolutely everything and wearing all of the hats, which I think that most people listening to this must know exactly what that feels like.


Jennifer:Yup. Myself included.


Leslie:Yeah, totally.


Jennifer:So, I mean, obviously you’re kind of talking about some of the challenges inherent in being an entrepreneur, whether it’s food or otherwise. So the last question I’m going to as you, and I know that you answered it a little bit already, but … What is the one thing that just keeps you motivated and keeps you focused on those rough days? Because we’ve all as entrepreneurs have them regardless of what industry we are working in. I mean, is there any one thing that you say to yourself or you just … Do you like, “I’m gonna make myself a cup of coffee and then I’m gonna get at it”, or how do you get yourself out of, kind of, a bad frame of mind and into a positive, let’s move this forward?


Leslie:So, I have kind of a big picture answers and I have a very tactical answer for that.




Leslie:My big picture answer is if you are going to quit your job or your job search and do something entrepreneurial, make sure that you love what you are about to do. I mean, I can’t say that enough. I’ve tried different ideas in the past and somebody once gave me the advice “make sure the river runs deep”. It is so true. Make sure your river runs deep, so when there’s times of drought, you don’t just dry out completely. You have to love what you’re doing, you have to believe in what you’re doing, and if you don’t, then things might happen for you because it’s a big world and a lot of things can happen for a lot of people, but it’s just that much harder to go through the slog that is launching a company, this is so much work, so much time away from your baby …




Leslie:Or your family, or you know, whatever it is that you do when you’re not working. It is so much of an effort that you really need to believe in what you’re doing. So I think, that idea … The fact that I am absolutely … I bleed my mission. It keeps me going. I still have times, you know if I have a day with very low sales or some days I have no sales, things like that. I still have times where I absolutely struggle, and I think what I look for in those moments are little wins. And that’s my very tactical approach to keeping myself motivated. Just something small. Because there’s small wins out there everyday. Maybe somebody said something nice to me, right. Maybe I came up with a new idea, maybe the latest design is looking beautiful. Maybe I completed something on time. Just the small, little wins.


I look for those because everyday, even though you have whatever rough thing that you’re going through at that precise moment, you have to open your eyes and look for the positive. Because guaranteed it’s there. And I think that’s what helps me reframe. It doesn’t do it immediately, but it does over a few hours, I would say. If I’m having a rough day and I start thinking, “Okay well, let me search my inbox for somebody writing something nice to me.” I get a lot of emails from parents or things like that, either they’ve played with the kit and their kid loved it, or I get some like fun emails sometimes.


I had one yesterday that said “My kid made thirteen dollars after recouping costs, but they want to keep it invested in the next business because they didn’t like their parents terms.” I’m like, okay, I look for those, I reread them, I actually … This reminds me. When I was employed, like more traditionally employed, not self employed, for like ten years, I used to have this thing. I used to have a red folder and a yellow folder and those folders had names. One was my happy folder and one was my, you know, curse word folder. And every time that something good happened, I would print it out and I would put it in my happy folder, and every time somebody sent me something that really, really pissed me off, I would print it out and put it in my red folder and I would just keep those over time and when that red folder got way, way, way out of line or the yellow folder, I would start considering that maybe it was time to find a new job.


So I still have that approach. I mean, I can’t really quit my job because I’m my own boss, so you know. I kind of have like an immediate feedback loop of my boss.




Leslie:But I still think of the concept of the yellow folder, and when I have those hard days, I open my old folder and I read through and I see, you know. Five things that made me happy in the past week and they’re there. If you just look for them, they’re there.


Jennifer:Yeah, that’s true. It’s sometimes easy, I think, especially when we are our own bosses, to get really down on ourselves because … I was speaking very stereotypically, but I think that a lot of us are fairly type A and fairly perfectionists and we want everything to go perfectly and in this world, nothing will every go perfectly. We sometimes beat ourselves up when it doesn’t go one hundred percent according to plan or when the day isn’t exactly perfect.




Jennifer:But yeah, if you can just look for those … I was just thinking, before we started talking, I was looking at my to do list and I’m like, “I actually got stuff done today!” And I was so happy. It’s not sales, it’s not anything like that, but I’m like “I got stuff done!”


Leslie:It’s a huge win, it’s a huge win. I have a clear inbox right now. That’s amazing. I mean, that never happens these days.


Jennifer:Oh, that’s awesome.


Leslie:Celebrate it.


Jennifer:Totally. Oh, well thank you so much for talking to us Leslie. Yeah, I’m going to start thinking in terms … I like that, the yellow folder. I’m going to start thinking in terms of that and looking to fill my yellow folder every day.


Leslie:Print things out. Just FYI.


Jennifer:I love it. Well thank you again for talking to us and sharing your story with us, and sharing, you know, your entrepreneurial experiences with us and as always, folks, I will include links back to Venture Kids in the transcript on the small food biz page, so if you have kids, or you know, have kids in your family, in your extended family that you want to help grow into an entrepreneur like yourself, this might be the way to get them started down that road.


So Leslie, thank you.


Leslie:Absolutely, thank you so much for having me.


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