July 9, 2018

So What Exactly Is Blockchain & Cryptocurrency? (PODCAST)

We’ve all heard the terms ‘blockchain’ and ‘cryptocurrency’ but what exactly do they mean? And what implications might they have for the food industry and for small food entrepreneurs? That’s what I sat down to talk to Matt Aaron about. You may recognize Matt’s name from a previous podcast he did for us and/or from his own Food Startups Podcast Series. What you may not know is that in addition to being a food entrepreneur, Matt also works with some of the biggest movers and shakers in the cryptocurrency industry. When it came to someone who understands not just this latest technology but also how it can impact the food world, there was no one I knew better suited to answer these questions than Matt.


Jennifer: Matt, it’s really great to have you back, so thank you so much.

Matt: Hey, Jennifer, it’s a pleasure. You know how much respect I have for you and the food business. We have the whole food brand summit experience together. I’m excited to be back on the show.

Jennifer: I’m really excited because we’re taking a totally different on today, but you are the best person that I know of because of your experience both in cryptocurrency and block chain but also in the food world to talk about this, which is basically okay.

Jennifer: So blockchain, that’s what everybody was hearing last year in 2017, you’re still hearing it in 2018, but when I ask, few people are actually able to explain what it is. So, help me, what is block chain?
Matt: Sure. I’m conscious of how esoteric the concept is and how misused and a buzz word it is, so I’m going to keep that in mind. To answer some of your questions, I may throw in additional qualifiers to help the listener understand.

Jennifer: Great.

Matt: Okay, so all a blockchain is… Think of a database that’s centralized, you can hold it on your computer. Right? Blockchain is essentially a database that everyone has a copy, meaning nodes that run the network have a copy of the blockchain so that every time it’s updated, it has to updated on every single computer. This is helpful for security. I’d say cyber security number one, meaning that these are… It’s a ledger than cannot be changed. Transparency, right? Being able to verify information.

Matt: Jennifer, if you have a database on your computer, you can change it however you want, but if everyone has a copy of it and it cannot be changed then it guarantees transparency of information. This is where I’d like to ask the qualifiers. One is, people are using the buzz word blockchain for everything.

Jennifer: Yes.

Matt: Most of them are not going to work out. Two, this is the biggest difference. You thought… Jennifer, if you’re in Seattle, San Francisco, New York, there’s this whole… You’re the people that want to sound intelligent, but are not into a subject. They’ll say something like, “It’s not about Bitcoin but blockchain.” They’re essentially regurgitating a concept that’s not really true. Let me tell you the way to best understand this, it’s about public blockchains, not private block chains. The comparison I’ll make is the Internet versus the Intranet. Obviously, the Internet is much bigger than the Intranet. There still are company Intranets that are helpful, right? The problem with when people say that it’s not about cryptocurrencies… A private blockchain is basically a blockchain where a consortium, where either one or there can be a group of 10 to 15 people, whether there’s banks, governments have a copy of it. It will play a role, but an infinitesimally smaller role than public blockchains.

Matt: Public blockchains are blockchains that anyone can access, but the people that maintain these block chains – we’ll call them the minors – they have to have incentive and they get paid in that cryptocurrency. Blockchains are inseparable from cryptocurrencies. Does that make any sense, at all?

Jennifer: It does make sense, but they are… A block chain is different than cryptocurrency, so let me restate what I heard and then you can tell me if I’m understanding it correctly.
Matt: Sure.
Jennifer: Blockchain, and when we’re talking about public blockchain, that is almost like these public databases that anybody can access. They are managed by, let’s just for the sake of argument, say a hundred miners are managing and administrating the blockchain, and the way that they are paid is in cryptocurrency?

Matt: Right. The Bitcoin blockchain, I mean… The Bitcoin blockchain. Right? And Bitcoin, they’re inseparable. Right? It’s a payment network. Right? So Bitcoin is really like a payment network. Right? The security, think of it this way, with banks we have the servers, we have the armored trucks that carry money, we have all the people working there that do fraud protection. Right? The mining of the block chain, that guarantees security, because if you can hack a blockchain and change information, whether it’s double spending Bitcoins or, we’ll talk about food, changing the organic certification, it’s really not worth anything. Right? Blockchain is there to make trust a commodity. Does that make sense?

Jennifer: So blockchain, then, would help against, it sounds like, and you talked about security. So, from either, let’s say a hacking standpoint, or just one individual deciding not to be above board and say, “This product is X when it’s really Y.” That, with blockchain, that information is accessible, so everybody can see it and understand it. Do I have that right?

Matt: That’s correct. With Bitcoin, the payment network isn’t incentivized to the miners to deliver the correct information. Think of it this way, block chain blocks information and the Bitcoin block chains are going for nine years. Let’s just say, Jennifer, let’s just say I sent you a Bitcoin, but I wanted to double spend it and send you the Bitcoin and then send it to my friend, which would invalidate the network. Right?

Matt: If I try to change that code, just one transaction, that would change the whole code of the block chain so it would be impossible to validate it. I have to change every single block since 2009. It’s all about incentives. The public block chains all come down to incentives to make sure that information is accurate. If we have a private block chain where, let’s say, you, myself, and four or five other people have a copy of it. They call those block chain consortiums, then there’s still this collusion aspect. Seven of us could get together and collude, where as if you want to attack the Bitcoin network, it might take, I don’t know, maybe $10 billion worth of mining equipment just to run the attack and you may not be successful. Maybe more, I don’t have the exact number there.

Matt: I won’t get too into it, but something called a 51% attack, where you take over 51% of the network. Obviously, let’s just say at 51%, if it’s a private blockchain, you and me and five other people. Well, four of us could change information of a blockchain. That’s a lot easier to do than attacking a Bitcoin block chain. Which, I will say, is the most secure database, or secure network, in the world. It has more processing power than Google servers, just to give you an idea.
Matt: To sum it up, in answer to “What is a blockchain.” It’s a decentralized ledger, and when it’s public, it’s one of the best ways for cyber security, because as you’ve seen in Facebook, Twitter, Target, these are top companies with top-notch cybersecurity engineers and they’re getting attacked. The problem is they have a central point of failure in their servers. With blockchain, you’d have to attack every single node at the same time in countries all around the world, which is virtually impossible.

Jennifer: So, that brings me to my next question, which is how is blockchain being utilized today in the US business world? We can talk generally and then go into food, next, but… So some of these companies you mentioned, where you’re talking about cyber security, how is blockchain being utilized? I know that’s a big question, so we’ll kind of keep it at the 10 thousand foot level.

Matt: Sure, and feel free to interrupt if I… We talked about this before. Sometimes you get into an ecosystem and you forget what sounds like your vocabulary today, six months ago was a buzzword that you yourself didn’t understand.

Jennifer: Yeah.

Matt: Here’s what I’d say, block chain isn’t doing that much right now, today. It’s going to be big in the future.

Jennifer: Okay.

Matt: Obviously on the bitcoin.com podcast network, we have a podcast called BlockChain 2025. I would say that the blockchain technology, cryptocurrency, is something that you’ll see much more prevalent. I think it will boom first in the developing world than it will in, say, the first world. Like the United States and Europe. Why is that? The banking systems work okay. They’re still fringe industries like the marijuana industry, adult entertainment… I interviewed a stripper who, completely legal, she’s a stripper, that’s her a job. Banks don’t like that, so they don’t let you have bank accounts. I think for people that unbank, the people that don’t have bank accounts, it makes so much sense. It’s so dangerous to store money in a safe or under your mattress, but the Bitcoin and blockchain technology, while rudimentary in 2018, allow you to not have a bank account, which is a huge revolution.

Matt: If you’re buying a container of food from China, you’re payment has to pass through five different banks. It’s crazy, Right? The banks are always getting a cut. I think, at the heart, we’ve got to start with payments. Right? Payments are the first thing. That allows you to bypass banks. It cuts out the middle man, and block chain’s all about cutting out middle men. Right? Making things cheaper and more efficient.

Matt:I will say this, for people that are listening, you can use something called Bit Pay. B I T P A Y, or there’s a number of other services. If you want just a pure marketing plan, I’m obviously much more interested politically and I believe in the movement. I’m kind of jaded from the 2009 political crises, but if you want to accept Bitcoin for your food products online, you can integrate Bit Pay with Shopify or any online shopping cart.

Jennifer: Oh, wow!

Matt: That’s a great way just to… And, Jennifer, you should accept Bitcoin for your e-books and all your products, because it’s a great way to get listener’s for free undirected. It’s free marketing and publicity. I would highly recommend doing that. People will say Bitcoin has a very… You know, Bitcoin cash, Bitcoin Ethereum, the cryptocurrencies, they have… They’re prices fluctuate a lot, it’s true, but trust me, it’s not like next month 90% of your purchases are going to be using cryptocurrency. It might be like one to two percent, but it’s a great maximum. It’s a great way for marketing saying “We accept Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash to get ahead of the competition.” That’s something that I’d say you could do right now. There are food companies and cafes and restaurants that accept Bitcoin. Nerds like me that go in, when I see that, I’m like, “Oh! Honey, we’re definitely eating here.” Right? I’ll pay them in Bitcoin. You can capture the nerd market, for sure, by doing that.

Jennifer: You know, when you were talking about, that maybe this isn’t something that’s going to be utilized today, and say with the businesses here in the US and you were talking about developing countries. My first thought went to the fact in developing countries, especially in Africa, you have very few people who have landlines and everybody has cellphones. It was because the infrastructure to build out the landlines was too expensive for, let’s say, the normal residents versus the phone companies could put up cell towers and then it was much cheaper for individuals to have cellphones. So, actually, for a long time, Africa had one of the highest rates of cellphone adoption over first world countries when we were all still getting up to speed on cellphones when everybody had a landline. So, I can see how a new technology… This could really have a big impact, ultimately, worldwide. Perhaps, primarily a first in developing countries.

Matt: That’s… Okay, and I’m going to add to that. I’d say, maybe equally as important as the infrastructure problem. What is another difference? Why are there more cellphones in the world than there ever were landlines? It’s because to have landlines, I don’t know if you remember this, they weren’t prepaid. You had to have credit. If you wanted it prepaid, you had to go to a payphone. For the younger people listening, yes, there were payphones you would actually… You’ve probably seen them in the movies. Right? In Africa, usually you have to have a bank account and you have to establish credit, but you can prepay cellphones just like you can…

Matt: On your cellphone, you can have Bitcoin, you can buy that. Right? You don’t need credit to have a credit… I’m sorry, you need credit to have a credit card, but for Bitcoin you can instantly buy Bitcoin with your cash. In Nigeria, this is crazy. If you’re lucky enough to have a debit card or a credit card. Do you know what the spending limit is online, monthly?

Jennifer: What?

Matt: $100. So, if you wanted to buy an iPhone, it wouldn’t be possible. So, they have all these ingenious methods of… There’s a company called Pastel that’s using Skype credits, Amazon gift cards, Wal Mart gift cards. They trade it for Bitcoin. The currency in Nigeria dropped 80% last year, so a lot of people there… I have stories I’m going to bring on. They were like, “Hey, I don’t exactly understand what Bitcoin is, but I know the – I forgot the name of what the Nigerian currency is, it happened in Venezuela, as well – but that currency isn’t worth anything, so I’m going to take a risk.” They were rewarded with 600% returns, as opposed to losing 80%. I think it’s historic value, you’re going to see that more and more in, like, a world crisis.

Matt: Another thing you have to think about is remittance payments. Right? Filipino’s are behind China and India, number three in remittance payments, worldwide. They… Sending money back home with Western Union. You might be paying 10 to 15% fees. I have a friend who runs this from South Korea to the Philippines. He has 30,000 Filipino’s working in South Korea and instead of paying eight to nine percent, they’re paying two percent on remittance payments or sending money back to their family. That’s a huge difference. Right?

Jennifer: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I never would have thought about that angle, either.

Matt: Yeah, so I think it’s come at happy hour or your friends discussions, your friendly discussions. I think when block chain is a buzzword, Bitcoin is a buzzword, but just remember that. Think about international. It’s not just the US, where it may take later in the US, after Africa, after South America, after Southeast Asia. Places like the… Africa, it goes about saying how many currencies that have failed. Look at Southeast Asia and the Philippines, there’s more pawn shops than banks.

Jennifer: Wow.

Matt: Yeah.

Jennifer: So, let’s take this question, then, to the food world. I know this is not necessarily something that’s being done right now. What, where do you see implications for how this could be used in the food industry?

Matt: Sure. So there are some… I know Wal Mart and IBM are testing, but there is a company Grassroots Co-op in Arkansas and they’re using a blockchain technology called Providence. What it does, it’s full tracking. So, it’s like a QR code that you can scan. They do like free chicken and pork. Right? They’re in a restaurant in San Francisco, as well as stores. You can also order online. You can literally scan, and using blockchain technology, it’s just immutable records of when was this meat packaged and where did it stop along the routes to the supply chain. So, it’s starting.

Matt: Let me paint a picture, I think it’s more about the future, though. I would combine two technologies. I’ll start with international trade and then I’ll move into domestic, but we’ll say international into the US. As you know, I export fruit from Columbia. There’s always problems with quality control, organic certification, quality control certification. If you work for the co-packer or whole foods, you know that they’re all about quality control certifications. You pay so much money for manually verifying documents. Right? A lot of paper pushers. Every time a container enters, you have to pay to these inspections, they have to verify all these documents, and that costs $50 to $100 each time.

Matt: Using blockchain technology, having the immutable proof of documents. Up until recently, they sent organic fruit to Europe, you literally had to Fed-Ex a copy of the organic certification of the shipment to Europe. Right? You couldn’t even send a digital copy. This cost $160 every time.

Jennifer: Oh, wow.

Matt: So, there’s so many middle men that would be cut out, that in logistics, in tracking, in efficiency. Another thing is payments, and something called Smart Contracts. I won’t get too much into it, but it’s basically and if then scenario, given certain conditions. So, as you probably know, the produce business is very precarious, there’s a lot of fraud. Not just from the exporter side. Is this fruit organic, is it not? Also from the buyer side. A lot of times we get lower prices because as exporters we can only trust certain people.

Matt: We should have a Smart Contract, and this will involve another technology, another buzzword that will be plaguing the world called the Internet of Things. What is Internet of Things? Smart devices. Right? Think of Echo, Alexa, the smart refrigerators, air conditioners, all those things. What if you can add smart devices to a container and to pallets?

Matt: Let’s say I’m going to send you a container of mangos, of fresh mangos, Jennifer. Basically, what if, using the Internet of Things, smart devices, we could say, as long as the moisture quality… Or, wait a sec. As long as the moisture level, the humidity level, and some other scientific terms, verifiable using Internet of Things to a block chain, meaning all this data is not like Jennifer’s tracking AP for fruit, but a public block chain that could be verified. As long as the moisture level and the temperature are between X and… Let’s just say, I’m just making this up… Between 40 and 55 degrees the whole time and as long as GPS tracking… As long as the container gets to the port of Seattle by, we’ll say June 1st. As soon as it hits the container and as long as these requirements are filled, which basically says the mangos are in good condition using some type of metrics that we can agree on.

Jennifer: Yup.

Matt: Automatically, they are “Hey, Jennifer, can you send me the payment?” No. As long as those conditions are met, and this is publicly viewable to all of us in third parties, it will automatically initiate a payment from you to me. So I don’t have to worry about getting paid. Whereas, just think of it, if you wanted to be a bad actor in this process. You could get the great mango’s and you could say, “Hey, Matt, I’m not paying you,” or “Hey, Matt, there was a problem.” I have no way of verifying this, but this would… That takes the question out. So, as long as we can agree to terms, then I can sell to anyone who creates these Smart Contract terms. I think that’s a revolution, right there.

Jennifer: That’s really good, yeah…

Matt: Again, this is not next month. This might be years from now, but I think that’s going to be really cool. I also think transparency is big in the natural, and especially the food, scene. Right now, let’s be honest, a lot of these organic certifications, I don’t do this. We had another company fraud our company, this year, so I can tell you it can definitely happen and it does happen. You’ve seen this happening in China, a lot, too, with soy and all over the world. You don’t know 100% that your food is organic, domestic, or international.

Matt: Why? You still have to pay these inspectors to come and verify it, but if there’s a way to… Let’s say using IOT to automatically scan for pesticides and put that into a blockchain, as well as the check where the land’s coming from, because, let’s just say, if you have organic certified land, you can verify that the fruit we grew is from there, not certify the land and then buy from a third party inorganic. As well as the freshness, all these types of things could give information to the consumer, which I think will be a big marketing play. I think that’s another opportunity going forward.
Matt: Like I said, Cody from Grassroots is already doing that with his farm in Arkansas. Also for shelf life and expired food and food waste. I think that could be a huge benefit of blockchain going forward.

Jennifer: Oh, yeah. That could have some really interesting implications.

Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: So what… You know we keep talking about that this is off in the future. Is there anything that food entrepreneurs need to be thinking about today and tomorrow in order to prepare for industry… I’m kind of laughing because I was about to say, “an industry that will change in the future.” As I was doing that, thinking about how much it’s currently changing just from a retailer landscape, right now. Is there anything that anybody listening right now, who’s like, “Okay, wow, all of this is new to me, is there something I need to be doing?” What’s your answer to that?

Matt: Sure. First off, I want to stress that this is… I’m still learning. I’ve spent a year of sleepless nights trying to learn about all this, the whole technology. It’s something you can’t… It’s not like… Let’s think about something, Jennifer… Okay. Jennifer, you and I have studied video conferencing. In a week, we pretty much… We’re the world experts in video conferencing, but we have a good idea on video conferencing. I think that’s fair to say, but with block chain technology and cryptocurrency, this is such a new revolution, that… Be willing to spend a lot of time, to learn.

Matt: Shameless plug. Go to the bitcoin.com podcast network at podcast.bitcoin.com. Our network is designed really with shows for beginners. We want to have targeted the 99%, so that my mom can listen to any one of these episodes and understand them. Think about learning that.

Matt: Second, I’d say accept Bitcoin cash. Bitcoin cash, for those that don’t know, is just kind of a… It was a fork of Bitcoin. We’ll just say it’s like they separated their block chains and it’s people more about spending, where Bitcoin is more investments or value. Start accepting Bitcoin cash, Bitcoin through any of your online stores as soon as possible. This is the best way because once you get $20 in your Bitcoin wallet, I think that’s a great way to start learning and just having that will be cool. Go buy a beer with it. I just think that’s the best way to learn it, is just feel it and feel using the cryptocurrency and that’s the incentive to learn about block chain and everything else. Again, as I mentioned, it’s a great way for marketing for your company. There’s so many directories you can join. Companies online, e-commerce, restaurants, stores that accept Bitcoin. That’s a free thing you can do.

Jennifer: Okay. Yeah, I like the idea of… I mean I personally, because I learned best by trial and error, so it is kind of like, “Okay, yeah, I’d be willing to put $20 to just… Hey, let me just play with this and figure it out.”

Matt: Sure. Exactly. I guarantee… You know that whole, I don’t know what the concept’s called, but you know where you buy like a gray Nissan and all of a sudden when you drive around you see more gray Nissan’s. You’re going to be walking around, and then you’ll start meeting people, and you’ll start seeing restaurants with the QR code, and “We accept Bitcoin” stickers more. It’ll just happen. Right? Just buy a beer, buy a sandwich, buy a coffee. It’s worth doing, I think it’s a really useful exercise. You’ll see. This is where it’s important to put in a spam word. We’re still very early.

Matt: I remember when I was a rebellious teenager, my favorite band, The Deaf Tones… I guess it’s against the Statute of Limitations. They didn’t have, Jennifer, credit card verification, so I literally bought a domain name, deaftoneswithaz.com, and I just made up a credit card number and they had no way to verify it. I had that domain for a year. Shameless. I was a teenager, I’m sorry whoever I bought that from, I’ll pay them back the $13 or whatever it was, but this is still very rudimentary and infrastructure needs to be developed before it can be used all around the world and my grandma can use Bitcoin. We’re still a ways away from that. You’ll see that when you use it. It’s a little bit… It’s getting there, but there’s still a lot of ways… There’s still a lot of things left to be desired of in terms of a UIUX standpoint.

Matt: I will say that money was sent from US to China all the way around the world, $99 million in seven seconds with a cost of three cents. So there are some revolutionary things happening right now, but I’m ranting a little bit, I’ll go back to. Start accepting Bitcoin, start learning about it. Then, also, it’s a political thing. It’s really a… It’s hard to separate the political movement. Learn how the banks and the Federal Reserve works for putting in a US dollar today. See if you agree with it or not, that’s your decision. Understand that the world can be different, and then look at what the Bitcoin movement’s about. There’s a great book called How Money Got Free. I highly recommend that. That kind of tells you what it’s about and you can learn online, as well. Then make your own decision.

Matt: Obviously, I’m an advocate for it, but I think it should be a personal decision. Bitcoin, it’s about choice. I think the people in Nigeria, Venezuela, and who knows what’s going to happen with the US dollar, but just having the option of another currency. I’m not saying you have to use it. No one’s forced to use it. I think, make your own decision about it. I will say, for anyone in the world, just like I would say in 1996 about the Internet, I think it’s fair to say that it was worth spending $20 to $30 or 20 to 30 hours, maybe $20 to $30 on a book just to learn what the Internet was about, because obviously it transformed everything.

Matt: I’m sure there were people back then… There were definitely naysayers, “Oh, this is just some weird photo storage tool that may not be used mainstream,” but there were also some nerds that said, “Hey, this is going to change everything and that thing’s happening right now and I would learn about this because it’s going to effect everything.” Just like… It’s like working in tech, we all work in tech. Jennifer, you and I use the Internet for work, everyone listening uses the Internet for work, it’s inseparable. The same thing’s going to happen with block chain and Bitcoin.

Matt: One last thought, to hold in your head. When you use Google Chrome, that’s an interface, you TCPIP, which is how you connect to the Internet, HTTP and HTTPS, which is how you load webpages. Right? It’s where pages are stored on the protocol and that’s so you can make secure transactions. You also have email, SMTP and i Map. Right? Using Google Chrome, you can access Gmail and do everything, but when you buy something online, all those protocols are going to effect. You get your email confirmation, the shipping notification, your credit card information is secure, usually, but you don’t have to know how all of these protocol’s work.

Matt: The same with blockchain. The best application of the block chain technology will just be really cool APS and applications that work in the background, that just enable you to do things better, faster, and more secure.

Jennifer: That’s a really good point. With that being said, though, can you back… Can you remind me the name of the book and also, just for everybody listening, also your podcast? I think those are two great resources for people like me who are kind of just starting to get their feet wet and understanding about this technology.

Matt: For sure. The name of the book is How Money Got Free by Brian Patrick Eha. Then our podcast network. Right? We have three shows, I’ll tell you very briefly, bitcoin.com/podcast or podcast.bitcoin.com and we’re on iTunes, Spotify, all the podcast channels. We have three shows. One is This Week in Bitcoin, which is just a weekly summary of the Bitcoin world and this comes out Friday at 3:00am every week. It’s just for those that don’t have the time to spend 20 hours a week reading about Bitcoin, like myself. This is just a 10 minute summary. You can listen to it on your weekly commute, and it’s a great way to keep up with the world and the news of all the crazy stuff happening. Today’s episode, we were talking about the war between Elon Musk and Warren Buffett, because, you see, Bitcoin kind of gets involved in everything, now.

Matt: Then we have our second show, which is BlockChain 2025, where each episode we take an industry and talk about the current state of the industry. The second part is how block chain will disrupt it and third some projects that are trying to be the solution in issues like gambling, arts, wine we’ll be covering. That’s a great way to learn about blockchain technology.

Matt: The third is called Humans of Bitcoin. Modeled after Humans of New York. Listen, once you get really into it, there are some very technical shows that talk about the code and application layer, base layer block chain stuff, but the whole idea of this technology, like I said, is getting everyday people to use it. This is just telling interesting stories about people whose lives have been affected by Bitcoin encrypted currency. For example, we have the mother of Ross Ulbricht. Ross was the founder of the Silk Road, and is serving a life sentence, so we interviewed her shortly before she went to visit her son in federal prison in Colorado. Also, Roger Ver, owner of bitcoin.com. A stripper that has accepted Bitcoin for seven years. People from all walks of life. Right? We have someone who’s telling us about the market in Africa. So, that’s Humans of Bitcoin.

Matt: Those are the three shows and I encourage you to check it out. For anyone learning, because my heart is always going to be in the food industry. As you know, I’m still in the food industry with my fruit business. I love to have short food industry, so my email is matt@bitcoin.com. If you have any questions, feel free to email me any questions you have. I’m a good friend of Jennifer. Anyone in the small food biz ecosystem is a friend of mine. I’d love to help you out.

Jennifer: Oh, Matt, I appreciate that because I know that you are crazy busy with everything that you have going on right now. I not only appreciate you taking the time today to come on and share what you know, but also that offer to just help people take that next step for learning what they need to learn about… With regards to blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies. So, thank you.

Matt: Oh, you’re welcome. It was a pleasure coming on and I… And listen, don’t get frustrated, listeners, because it’s so complicated. It takes time, but just being able to commit to learning and spending time. I don’t think anyone’s spend 20 to 50 hours about Bitcoin and block chain and said, “Hey, that was a waste of time.” I can say that. Whether or not you become an aficionado, you don’t have to invest or anything like that, but just being aware of this because it’s, to me, it’s an unstoppable force. It’s being ahead of the curve can really add a lot to your career and to your startup.

Jennifer: That’s fantastic. Thank you, so much, Matt.

Matt: Oh, you’re welcome.

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